In this special edition of the City Journal podcast, Daniel Di Martino, Josh Appel, and Rafael Mangual reflect on the magic of the holiday season in New York City. They share some of their favorite traditions, discuss the enduring lessons of movies like It’s a Wonderful Life, and consider deeper questions about individualism versus social obligation.
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Audio Transcript
Rafael Mangual: Well, hello and welcome to a new holiday special episode of the City Journal Podcast. My name is Rafael Mangual. I am your host, so happy to be joined by my wonderful colleagues. We got Daniel Di Martino. Josh Appel. Welcome to the show, gentlemen.
Rafael Mangual: I like the hat. I like the hat, man. It is Christmas in New York. I love this season. It is my favorite time of the year. Christmas is my favorite holiday and New York, I think, does it better than any other city in the world. Anybody care to disagree?
Daniel Di Martino: No, I think it's special. I'm very happy to be living here around Christmas time especially actually.
Rafael Mangual: What's your favorite thing about Christmas in New York?
Daniel Di Martino: I mean, it's just that when you're a kid, you watch so many movies that are about Christmas in New York City that I think that that's what makes it special then when you live in it. And I think we shouldn't lose sight of that. You get used to it. And I go to the Rockefeller Center. That's beautiful. The Central Park. See the snow. We're getting a very cold Christmas this year.
Rafael Mangual: We’re going to get snow this weekend.
Daniel Di Martino: Yeah. So yeah, that's why I think it's special.
Rafael Mangual: I love it. Yeah, I'm a big fan of the windows.
Josh Appel: Yeah. So I used to, growing up, my mother would always take us to the Macy's windows and it's just the best. And then my sisters would always, for the Gen Zers out there, take us to Juicy Couture to get the charm bracelet. Always a good time. But yeah, Central Park, Rockefeller Center, it's just iconic, especially when there's snow. It's the best MSG, also…
Daniel Di Martino: Saks windows
Rafael Mangual: And the Saks windows, they do it. Right. Although it's gotten so crowded now, you can't even really enjoy it unless you're going off hours because it's like the sidewalk is packed. And you got NYPD directing traffic out there. But you mentioned Macy's. I don’t if you guys heard, but actually there was a Christmas shopper, tourist, I think from California who got stabbed in the 34th Street-Harold Square Macy's yesterday by a homeless woman in the bathroom. Imagine you're checking things off your list, you go to hit the head, and some nut job jumps out and sticks a knife and you several times.
Daniel Di Martino: There you go. Policy issues affect Christmas too.
Rafael Mangual: That's right. That's right. I'm sure she's going to end up on Santa’s naughty list. But yeah, I mean, I want to talk a little bit about just holiday traditions. I mean, one of the gift I'm giving to myself this week for Christmas is that we're not going to talk too much about policy.
Daniel Di Martino: Oh, really? That's a gift for you, for yourself.
Rafael Mangual: So I think we're going to take a little break from that. That's all I think about. It's like every once in a while you need a mental break from all of that stuff. So I wanted to chat with you guys about just what your traditions are. I mean, for my part, I grew up in New York, so Christmas in New York, again, very iconic. I've gotten a chance to kind of see all of the things, but the one thing that was out of reach for a long time for me was the Christmas Spectacular at Radio City, the Rockettes. And that was something would always see the advertisements. I would see the commercials for it as a kid. And we didn't have a lot of money. It wasn't until, I think I was like 11 years old when we went for the first time. And it was, I mean, at that point, I'm not even, I'm beyond believing in Santa, I was like 11, beyond believing in Santa and all that stuff. And we'll talk about that too. But it was incredible. And my family and I, we went a few times and it was one of those things where it was like an experience where I said, I'm doing this for my family no matter what. When I grow up, the Christmas spectacular will be a thing. And when my wife and I met our first Christmas and every Christmas since we have gone to the Christmas spectacular and now we take our kids and it is amazing year every year. So it's always her birthday gift.
Daniel Di Martino: What do they do? I've actually never been to one.
Rafael Mangual: Oh my God. There's these cool dance numbers and these little skits and they bring the animals out and I mean, it's fun.
Daniel Di Martino: Do they host every day? Several times a day?
Rafael Mangual: Yeah. Yeah. There's multiple shows a day. Every day. The Rockettes come out and dance and do the iconic leg kick, and it's amazing. And it's my favorite thing. I look forward to it every year and just watching the kids' faces light up and Santa comes out and the elves do their little dance. It's just…
Daniel Di Martino: It's awesome. So you say it's mostly families with kids because there's a Santa thing?
Rafael Mangual: Yeah, it's families with kids also a lot of dates. So especially the later shows, you get a lot of couples and that was a thing for us. So my wife and I, before we had kids, we would always go out to a nice dinner and then go see the late show and then go home. It was always a nice night. So that has become a solid Mangual family tradition that I absolutely love. Usually before or after the show, we'll take the kids to Rockefeller Center and see the tree and some of the windows and that and the picture with Mall Santa, we can't skip it.
Daniel Di Martino: Which Santa do you take the picture for your kids to?
Rafael Mangual: What do you mean? Which mall?
Daniel Di Martino: Which mall, right.
Rafael Mangual: Oh, Roosevelt Field Mall out Long Island.
Rafael Mangual: Yeah. Yeah. So Mall Santa Pictures, we have one for every year with the kids and that's pretty cool. They get to tell them what they want and he admonishes them to be good boys and girls. And it's the best. It's the best. What about you guys?
Daniel Di Martino: So for me, Christmas traditions are mostly around food. So while in Venezuela, you obviously, where I grew up, we make something called hallacas around Christmas. It's kind of like the Venezuela tamal. If you've had Mexican tamals, this is like plantain leaf around. It has almonds inside. Yeah. Well, every Venezuelan does it a little differently. It has pulled chicken. There's different recipes, but it's made with corn essentially.
Daniel Di Martino: And that’s why it's delicious and it's very laborious to make, so it has to be a family affair. I’m making it with my mom this year. And then we also make an Italian sweet called caggionetti, which is from my grandparents region, and it's made with chestnut and chocolate. That sounds special. That's the filling. And it's fried and it's wow.
Rafael Mangual: Fried chestnut and chocolate. You got to sign me. Sign me up.
Daniel Di Martino: I'll bring you inthe office. I'll bring, we're going to make a lot. You can freeze them too, and then you can reheat them in the microwave.
Rafael Mangual: Tell when I'm breaking my diet for that.
Daniel Di Martino: It's so good.
Rafael Mangual: So our little food tradition that there's something, I'm sure you guys have heard of it. I mean, well you for sure, but coquito, have you heard of that?
Daniel Di Martino: No. Actually, maybe I have? Chocolate?
Rafael Mangual: No, it's like, basically like a Caribbean take on eggnog. It's like a rum-based, creamy, cinnamon, sweet, vanilla drink. Yeah. But it's thinner than the milkshake. But the alcohol, it comes off and it's like, so my mom will make, she starts…
Daniel Di Martino: Is it like ponche crema?
Josh Appel: Do you have a holiday party and then you will serve it?
Rafael Mangual: No. So what my mom will do is she'll start saving wine bottles and empty liquor bottles leading up to Christmas. And then she will make batches for everyone and she gives it to all the family members and friends and it's what we are drinking around the tree on Christmas and stuff. So that's our one Christmas specific thing that we consume. We always have a nice dinner, but yeah. What about you?
Josh Appel: So I don't celebrate Christmas as a holiday. I’m Jewish, so I do celebrate Hanukah, Hanukkah, however you want to pronounce it or spell it. There's like 20 different ways.
Daniel Di Martino: I never know when people…
Josh Appel: In Hebrew it's, it's Hanukah. It's in Hebrew, so it is.
Daniel Di Martino: Then why do people use the C?
Josh Appel: That's what C. The C would be the phlem-y Jewish sound.
Daniel Di Martino: Oh, really?
Josh Appel: Yeah. So I think in Venezuela you would say cha, right? For ch, but we pronounce it as a, there really isn't an English, so sometimes they have an H with a dot under it. That's another way. But I think most Jewish Americans, and especially Jewish New Yorkers, there's this hybrid of, on the one hand you're celebrating Hanukkah includes all of its very beautiful family get togethers, and we have our own ethnic foods, certain European delicacies…
Josh Appel: So there's something called latkes, which are just fried potatoes. The joke is that the story of Hanukkah is that the Greeks tried to destroy the Jewish people's culture and impose their Greek culture on the Jewish people, which included physical fitness and this beautiful Adonis culture. And so the Jews to get back at the Greeks go the exact opposite, fried ,fried potatoes and jelly donuts, and it's a lot of jelly donuts. It's very good, but you feel very gross by the end. There's some people who have, I wouldn't call it a tradition, it's more of just like a social media trend, to have a donut per as many candles as you like that. You end up having 80 donuts if you really keep with that. But then also we do…
Rafael Mangual: I may have to convert.
Josh Appel: Yeah. Honestly, it's time and it's very family oriented. So this coming week we have about three or four different family get togethers with us, especially I’m now married. So it multiplies a get together for sure. Great. But also as I grew up in Queens, I lived here my whole life.
Rafael Mangual: But where in Queens do you grow? Remind me.
Josh Appel: I grew up in Jamaica Estates. And now I live in Bayside in Queens. And so it's not so far on Subway. And so again, a great just family holiday tradition was always, first of all, we used to go to Thanksgiving Day parade as often as you could. My grandpa would take us.
Daniel Di Martino: The Macy's one?
Josh Appel: Yeah, Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade. That was awesome. It also always included watching all these holiday movies and holiday theme TV shows from Seinfeld and Friends and just this iconic New York City…
Daniel Di Martino: You grew up watching Friends too?
Josh Appel: Oh, sure. Yeah. That was the best. The Thanksgiving and Christmas episodes were so fun.
Daniel Di Martino: I grew up watching Friends in Venezuela.
Josh Appel: And then we would come to the city and we'd see the twinkling lights and go to Broadway and Times Square and the M&M store and the Red Steps, and we'd usually go to dinner and a show. And the best though ever was, my mom's birthday is in December and one year for her present, my dad got us tickets to see Billy Joel at the Garden. Over Christmas. And that was, that was all of the New York Center sort of culture coming together, and it was just amazing. So that was a great, I can't call it a tradition, but definitely a memory that sticks out to me.
Rafael Mangual: Amazing. Long Island stand up. You mentioned Seinfeld, which is I think the best show ever made. Explains all of life, hands down, explains all of life.
Daniel Di Martino: I prefer Friends much better. But I have been to the Seinfeld restaurant because it's near Columbia.
Josh Appel: Yeah, yeah. It's right on Broadway.
Daniel Di Martino: It's actually not pricey or anything. It's like, it was like a regular….
Josh Appel: I was going to say that when you were talking about taking your kids to meet Santa, I hope you didn't have this communist. I was say, that
Rafael Mangual: My favorite Christmas episode where Kramer becomes a mall Santa for that episode with his friend and Elaine starts dating a communist. And so the communists starts trying to convert Kramer, listen, you're working all these hours and are you getting a break? And what happens if your face gets itchy from the fake beard? Are they going to be there with a health plan? He ends up getting Kramer fired.
Speaker 4: Oh, wow. Because the Kramer
Speaker 4: Kids. Yeah. The kids like dad here, which shows, by the way, the cultural, he was even instilled in the kids back then. Oh yeah. Garbage.
Rafael Mangual: Was still coming off the Cold War. Right. Only ended in…
Daniel Di Martino: When was this? When was time?
Rafael Mangual: I want to say ‘93, ‘94, that episode.
Daniel Di Martino: Yeah, I remember that.
Daniel Di Martino: You said the concert, Billy Joel. I'm actually taking my mom to see Andrea Bocelli for Christmas in Madison Square Garden.
Rafael Mangual: Exciting. You're a good son.
Daniel Di Martino: Andrea Bocelli is going everywhere. He just did the concert in the White House for Trump twice. I didn't see that. Trump is obsessed with him. Milei gave him an award in Argentina, Andrea Bocelli. No, he's amazing. And I bet he's going to sing a lot of Christmas songs.
Rafael Mangual: Yeah. Yeah. That sounds amazing. All right. Well, we started talking about Christmas TV shows, but I want to talk a little bit about Christmas movies. I mean, one classic that everyone brings up this time of year is It's A Wonderful Life, which is a beautiful story. I rewatched the movie yesterday and well, what my kids allowed me to watch of it, because it looks like between dinnertime, bathtime, bedtime and all that stuff. But I mean, it is, it's a beautiful story. It's a sort of quintessential American tale. This beautiful, small, quaint town comes together to back Mr. Bailey, and you've got the villain, Mr. Potter. But I found myself this time around expressing a lot more sympathy for Mr. Potter.
Josh Appel: Bailey would've voted for Mamdani.
Rafael Mangual: Am I the only one who caught this?
Daniel Di Martino: Is like that in The Simpsons, The older you become, the more your sympathetic with Mr. Burns. It is exactly like that.
Rafael Mangual: I mean, look, don't get me wrong…
Josh Appel: He does bad things. He steals the money.
Rafael Mangual: Yeah. He's a terrible person and all that.
Josh Appel: But his business know-how is probably the correct method for running an entire city in the town.
Rafael Mangual: Right. Well, the whole movie is premised on this idea that Mr. Bailey is convinced to give out money, reinvigorate his sense for life by seeing what life would've been without him had he never been born. And it's like, okay, all of these things don't happen. The town's completely different. But I just found myself thinking, well, what happens if Mr. Potter pulled all this money and Atlas just shrugged on this one? And I mean, those investments matter, right? Look, I'm not defending the villain. Okay. Police, but…
Josh Appel: Right. No, and they try to do that in the movie by portraying this very grimy city. If George Bailey wouldn't have been there and it was Pottersville would've been full of clubs and illegal sort of activity. But again, that is clearly a caricature of a character that usually it doesn't have to be that way, that just because you have capitalism, it will extend into that sort of township.
Daniel Di Martino: Yeah. I mean, it's an argument. I mean, it's why you need to have some moral standards rather than just total free. That's the thing. Because then you do get the commercialization of vice in a very excessive way.
Rafael Mangual: And that's the thing about what's beautiful about that movie is that the salvation comes from the core of his family and his immediate community. And none of that is incongruous with capitalism, with free markets, of course, not even with individualism. I think a lot of people who watch that movie see it as kind of a critique of individualism and this sort of selfish desire to leave and be adventurous and pursue your, it's like you can do that within the context of having a family, of developing community. And that's not just possible, but I think necessary. This quote has been misattributed more than I can remember, so I won't even try and attribute it to the right person. But it's this idea that freedom only works for a moral people. And I think there's actually truth to that.
Daniel Di Martino: So I was reading Centesimus Annus by Pope John Paul II, that was the encyclical actually, finally, it was published May 1st Workers' Day, 1991, right after the fall of the Soviet Union. And it was on the 100th anniversary of the encyclical Rerum Novarum of Pope Leo 13th, from which the current Pope received his name, which is the Catholic social teaching, meaning the teaching of the Catholic church around the economy, capitalism, socialism. What John Paul II says is that, and I actually just posted this on my social media, the Marxist solution has failed.
Rafael Mangual: Based.
Daniel Di Martino: Yes. But then he said, well, I mean Polish too. He's very right. He saw it. But he talks about if capitalism, if all the capitalism just means is the free economy, free trade, and the ability to start businesses and own private property, then yes, that is the solution to our material needs. But if what capitalism is is totally no restrictions at all, like, we're going to just legalize prostitution and people are going to be able to freely trade their bodies or whatever. That is not the solution. And I think that that's exactly the division here. We want private property, we want free markets, but we also want some moral guidance.
Josh Appel: I mean, John Adams, one of my favorite quotes by the American founding fathers. He said, this will only work this experiment, this social contract, this declaration is wholly for a religious people. I don't think he necessarily meant you have to be a certain type of religion. What he was saying is that the Declaration of Independence and the social contract based on the ideas of the Enlightenment and across Europe, it's only the inability for the government to impinge on your rights. But it doesn't tell you how to live a moral and proper life. It's not a guidance. And that thing of the positive could only be added by this other framework of the church or the synagogue or whatever of virtue you have in your life. And once you remove that, I think we are at a loss. And I think going back to It's A Wonderful Life, a lot of, I think nowadays the culture is that there's this tradeoff between maximizing your personal happiness and living for others. And that's why this marriage decline and birth rate is fertility down,
Daniel Di Martino: Right? Excessive individualism.
Josh Appel: And people are like, why would I have a kid? I want to be a DINK—double income, no kids live my life. And I think what the message is. It’s, that's George Bailey. He wants to actually, he's not just trying to live frivolously for fun. He wants to travel and become educated, which is some sort of higher calling, but still the movie is saying to him, all those things that you thought were holding you back, whether it was caring for your father, your brother, your business, this small town, those are the things that they weren't holding you back at all. They gave you that wonderful life. And as his brother said, you are the richest man in town, the richest.
Rafael Mangual: That's the best part because his brother, in a lot of ways, lives the life that he always wanted to live and yet comes back envying the one who feels like he lost out. And that's the thing. It's like those things are not incompatible. You can pursue your own betterment. You can pursue your ambitions within the context of these other things that bind and ground you. Like a family is an institution that does place restrictions on you in terms of you're no longer living just for yourself. You have to subordinate your interest to those of the people in your family. But it is in your self-interest to do that in the long term because that is the only way that you get to experience the love and amazing moments. And it's like I think about my life and it's like the best moments in my life have nothing to do with an accomplishment, like publishing something or getting to testify before Congress or getting some kind of win at work, getting to travel, buying something nice for myself. None of that will ever come close to the happiness I get at AM when my daughter crawls into bed and wakes me up. And it's amazing.
Daniel Di Martino: Except when it’s like at AM. Just kidding.
Josh Appel: I'm a new time parent, actually. And I could say, you will lose sleep. You will not be able to watch and binge watch your TV shows. You will not be able to buy the same Starbucks that you may have to, and you may not get to travel for a few years as you want it to. But there is nothing like seeing the smile looking back at you when, whatever time, and I think it's, and people think it's a trade off, and why would you sacrifice these great things you have going for you? And it's like it's not a sacrifice.
Daniel Di Martino: Because it's also, I think when we talk about individualism, we talk about all our rights and we forget about all our duties.
Josh Appel: Right? Yeah. Well, that's the…
Daniel Di Martino: Right, I think people want rights without duties, and that's where the problem comes from.
Josh Appel: There's been, not to talk about policy, but there has been an expansion of government in the promises that they… Because as we want to do less, we also want to receive more. It's creating this unsustainable…
Rafael Mangual: I think ultimately, even though I have a very deep libertarian streak, I think that's the thing that always made me identify as conservative more was that I subscribe to this idea that ultimately there are certain duties that you should want to incur because those duties make your life richer. I mean, I think this is one of the reasons why someone like Jordan Peterson really spoke to such a large audience and resonated, right? Yeah. I mean, there is a power and meaning that comes with the adoption of responsibilities that force you to subordinate your immediate desires for something better. And that works on the individual level too. I mean, we've seen that, right?
Daniel Di Martino: Yeah. Well, so far I've only been talking even about just the individual level, not even on the policy…
Rafael Mangual: Right? No, but I'm saying in the individual level, but also at the family level. But at the individual level, if you think about the things that are enjoyable or the moments where you feel a sense of triumph, it'll usually surround things like work, educational attainment, all of those things require sacrifice of something. All of those things require diligence, require you to push through some sense of discomfort, right? Physical fitness is a prime example of that, right? You can't really achieve the body that you like seeing in the mirror without going through terrible workouts and moderating your diet, eating enough protein, not eating too many calories, or to not switching. I was salivating as you were speaking earlier. So yeah, I mean, that to me is one of those messages that I think is probably the right one to take away from a movie like It's A Wonderful Life, but I was watching it. I couldn't help the capitalist and being like, wait a minute. I think Mr. Potter's getting a bit of a bad rap. It's not, you can be a good capitalist and still be ruthless and cold in terms of how you do your business without…
Daniel Di Martino: Most capitalists aren't that ruthless, cold as they're portraying the movies.
Rafael Mangual: Yeah. I mean, that's actually been one of the things that I love about this world that we're in. Because a lot of the organizations in Conservative, Inc, whatever you want to call it, rely on philanthropic support. And it just blows my mind constantly how you have so many people who could very easily check out and not pay a price for it. They have everything that they need to insulate themselves from the downsides of bad policy, to insulate themselves from crime.
Daniel Di Martino: Yeah. A lot of America's wealthy people who go live in a tax haven.
Rafael Mangual: Yeah, absolutely. And yet they don't because they care. They spend their…
Daniel Di Martino: And they donate not just to conservative causes. This is really a tiny fraction of all donations. Nothing less than 1 percent perhaps. We're talking really it's health stuff. It's education, nonprofits helping people out of prison, crime, everything.
Rafael Mangual: Yeah. What I'm saying is that the reality is that the kind of person who achieves that level of financial success is generally of the temperament that usually comes with, or comports with an incredible amount of generosity. I mean, these people are parting with not just their treasure, but their time and their energy and their effort in order to do what they think is going to make the world a better place, even though they're not getting anything in return for it. And that's actually much more typical of someone who's in the position of a Mr. Potter than what was portrayed in that movie. And that is my only gripe. That is the only…
Daniel Di Martino: Also in Catholic teaching, and this is where a lot of socialists really get to their belief that the rich should give everything that they have is a principle called the universal destination of goods. Which is that eventually, if you're really wealthy, you should really just donate everything you have, or you don't need it that much. So the government should take it from you. That's their conclusion. When in reality the principle is about is that if you got to build the wealth that you did, legitimately, I'm not talking about stealing, right? If you are like Maduro in Venezuela, you didn't build your wealth. Yes, we need to take it back from you. But if you are Bill Gates, right? And I'm not saying, I'm not a fan of Bill Gates personally, of how he uses his wealth, but he built it because he's really smart. He knows how to do it. Therefore, you know what? I think he's actually more intelligent in how to spend it and donate it than the U.S. federal government and some bureaucrats in an office in the department of whatever. And that's the point that the rich, because they got their legitimately, they're actually in a very good position to donate. Think about Michael Dell recently, what he did, what an amazing thing. He's donating 6.25 billion dollars to America's children on their 10 years old so that they can have an investment account so that when they're 18, they all have thousands of dollars tax deferred that they can use to buy a home to go to college. This is out of the generosity of having built an amazing enterprise from which we bought his computers. I had a Dell computer for many years.
Rafael Mangual: I was always a Mac guy. But…
Josh Appel: Yeah, sorry to hear that.
Daniel Di Martino: I'm a Dell fan. It's okay. But the point is, this is another great example of such principle.
Rafael Mangual: Yeah, no, I think that's right. So, alright. Well we've talked about it's a wonderful life, but I'm curious as to what your other favorite Christmas time movies are. I personally, I don't think it gets better than Home Alone 2: Lost in New York. I mean, if you're talking about Christmas in New York is crucial. Home Alone 1 is fantastic, don't get me wrong. Absolutely crucial. Watch it. It makes Home Alone 2 better, but I mean, Lost in New York in the Plaza Hotel, Donald Trump making a cameo. Although I think he's actually been erased from the…
Josh Appel: That is erasure.
Daniel Di Martino: But maybe he wasn't erasing all of them. Maybe just a couple streaming platforms…
Rafael Mangual: Yeah, I think on some of the streaming platforms. But it's just like, you know what, actually that guy saved the Plaza Hotel.
Josh Appel: Yeah. Also, why? Just, what's the justification? It that bad?
Josh Appel: There a lot worse people, there's a lot worse people who have produced a directive.
Rafael Mangual: For sure. That's right.
Josh Appel: Yeah. But yeah, Home Alone 2, because I think they also go to FAO Schwartz. That’s a big part of it. Which that was also an iconic, it's kind of sad that they moved, they closed, but now they're reopened. But it's much smaller than it used to be.
Josh Appel: I remember the FAO Schwartz from Big, that was…
Rafael Mangual: Isn't that where the Apple Store is now?
Rafael Mangual: That used to be… it was a massive, massive toy store.
Josh Appel: You could go… But they would just let you play with, it was a kid's wonderland. You would just go play. And they had this massive piano that was very iconic where you had to jump on the notes in order to play the sounds.
Rafael Mangual: I don't ever think we ever even went in there because most of that stuff is too expensive.
Josh Appel: But we didn't find anything. But they let you, it's great marketing.
Rafael Mangual: We used to go…
Josh Appel: I guess that's why they closed.
Rafael Mangual: Do you remember the Toys R’ Us in Times Square? With the roller coaster inside? That was one of my favorite things to… Was my favorite thing to do.
Josh Appel: Ferris wheel, huge Jurassic Park dinosaurs…
Daniel Di Martino: Shame that Toys R’ Us went broke.
Josh Appel: Underratedly, well, I don't know if it's underrated. Elf is,
Josh Appel: Will Ferrell at his best.
Rafael Mangual: Yes. That movie's hysterical.
Josh Appel: Iconic. Also Central Park, making an appearance in the third act of that movie.
Rafael Mangual: And Central Park has really made a comeback too. I mean, Home Alone 2, right? Birthday. One of the iconic lines there. You had the birthday, right?
Daniel Di Martino: Well, Home Alone 2. They're in Central Park a lot of the time,
Rafael Mangual: Right? Well, he's running away from them at one point, and he gets away in Central Park and Harry and Marv turn to each other. They go, he'll be dead in a couple hours. Even grown men walk into the park and don't come out at night.
Daniel Di Martino: Back in the day.
Rafael Mangual: Right? Back in the day. That was true. And New York has changed so much. And it's like I go back and I watch those movies and I just appreciate how much better we have it. And it makes me want to strangle all the people who have this stupid sense of pride in the grittiness of New York. And it's like I'm now a real New Yorker because a homeless person peed on me.
Daniel Di Martino: Oh yes, the romanticization of the third world. Yeah. Oh, I love the street market of the illegal immigrants selling illegal goods in towels in the middle of the sidewalk.
Rafael Mangual: I mean look how charming, trademark infringement.
Daniel Di Martino: No. And drugs and legal, all of it. Yeah. I think it's terrible. But I prefer it Home Alone 1. And the reason is actually really funny. So it's in his home. It's like home invaders. One of the fears we always had in Venezuela because of crime was like a home invasion. So I both really identified with Home Alone 1.
Josh Appel: Did you ever heat up the doorknob ever?
Daniel Di Martino: No, not that, but I certainly had a lot of nightmares on growing up.
Josh Appel: Wow. No, socialism's amazing.
Daniel Di Martino: Yeah, exactly.
Josh Appel: You don't know. Just don't know.
Daniel Di Martino: People don’t how good we have it. For you it was a movie. For us, it happened to us when I was a little baby, actually. Oh, they took everything. They took our cars. They took even the baby formula my mom had for me. Goodness. This was in the year early two thousands.
Rafael Mangual: Well, look, that was a reality for us here in New York in the nineties. I mean, I remember it was like 19 91, 92. My neighbors used to babysit us. And so she was a teenager at the time and she lived with her two parents who lived upstairs from us. And so my parents were going out to dinner and they were getting ready to drop us off, but we were all coming back together, both families from wherever it was that we were going. So my parents walked us up, her parents opened the door to the apartment. I remember her mom immediately breaking down. It was right before Christmas too. Her mom immediately breaking down. And then I remember my dad pulling his gun out because he was a cop and went in and cleared the apartment and made sure no one else was in there. And I just remember being confused what's going on? Because I was this long hallway in front of the door. But I guess she could immediately see that the place what was left had been ransacked. But they took the TV, the VCR, they took a bunch of jewelry, all the cash that was in the house, and it was completely ruined their Christmas.
Josh Appel: Yeah, that would do it.
Rafael Mangual: But yeah, so I mean look, that was everywhere. But I mean, what a comeback, right? I mean New York is by comparison, amazing.
Josh Appel: Yeah. Crimes at its lowest in...
Rafael Mangual: Well, at least shootings and homicides for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the other categories…
Josh Appel: CVS robberies are up
Daniel Di Martino: What's interesting in Caracas, people prefer to live in buildings over houses because of the crime issue. Home invasions were much easier in a house rather than building, except for there was this one robber that became famous because he climbed over buildings people. Spiderman. That was his nickname. He was Spider-Man. That’s how he got into apartments.
Josh Appel: Oh my goodness. Spider-Man's from Queens and that's where he stays. I mean it’s a lot of pride.
Daniel Di Martino: I thought he went to high school in the Bronx.
Daniel Di Martino: I thought he went to Bronx Science.
Josh Appel: No. Spiderman maybe in the movie. In the movie.
Rafael Mangual: But no, in the original comic, he's Queens.
Josh Appel: His legacy is Queens. We have the Mets and Spider-Man right now. I don't want to talk about the Mets.
Rafael Mangual: I’m not sure you ever want to talk about the Mets.
Daniel Di Martino: Didn’t he go to college at Columbia?
Josh Appel: I think that was just one of the movies.
Daniel Di Martino: That was one of the scenes.
Josh Appel: Someone from Queens could theoretically go to Columbia. That's okay.
Daniel Di Martino: Is that what you think?
Rafael Mangual: Alright, so there's one other sort of Christmas issue that I want to talk about because I see this on X trending every year. It happened again, and it bugs me, which is you have these grinches out there who say that they don't think kids should believe in Santa Claus and they encourage people to ruin it for the kids.
Daniel Di Martino: Oh, well Trump did do it in one. That was really funny though. Your age is marginal. That is another Trump iconic moment. That is a Trump iconic moment. So there's actually people who think it shouldn't believe in things.
Rafael Mangual: Well, they say it's lying to kids. You're lying. That you're lying to kids. That's psychologically damaging. And that it's, that's true. We do lie to kids all the time. It usually white lies. But actually, I don't think that there's any basis for this claim that it's a lie or B, that it's psychologically damaging. I mean, the way that I have seen it is essentially what parents are doing is that they're engaging in a long, elaborate and incredibly magical game of pretend with their kids. And it only lasts a few years. And I think it actually sets the stage for incredible lessons about the power of metaphor. And it's like, yeah, Santa Claus isn't real insofar as there's not a big fat man with a white beard who flies reindeer around the world and one night and delivers presents. But…
Daniel Di Martino: Careful, Rafa, there are kids watching.
Rafael Mangual: But there are people, IE your parents, who are keeping track of whether you're naughty or nice and who are rewarding you or penalizing you on that basis. Right?
Josh Appel: It's very godly.
Daniel Di Martino: I mean, it's like, well, I mean this has a religious origin. When I was a kid in Venezuela, we didn't believe in Santa. I mean most kids, we believed in baby Jesus. I actually think it's a better thing to tell kids just because Jesus is real.
Josh Appel: You chose the wrong hat.
Daniel Di Martino: Santa comes from St. Nicholas, a Catholic saint
Josh Appel: Talking about. He makes an appearance in Narnia. By the way, St. Nicholas
Daniel Di Martino: Narnia has a lot of Christian references.
Josh Appel: Well, it's a Christian and C.S. Lewis is an amazing,
Rafael Mangual: I must confess, I've never read the Chronicles in Narnia
Josh Appel: You have to read it. And there's the great, it's a movie. It's pretty good, the first one at least. And he, yeah, he's like the turning point that brings, he's the symbol of wonder and joy. And like you said, it's pretend all kids pretend. They build forts. They slay dragons with the hanger and they play pirates and cowboys.
Daniel Di Martino: And kids do all these things even though they're not real. So it silly to not believe…
Josh Appel: It's like an adultification of childhood. And that's just not the point.
Daniel Di Martino: It's the childification of adulthood
Josh Appel: Childification. Right, exactly.
Daniel Di Martino: Actually, this is exactly what the love is about that you say that. That's a great point. They want kids to be able to change their gender. Oh, but don't believe in Santa. It's like we're switching roles and the adults stay with your parents. Don't grow up.
Rafael Mangual: Exactly. It's like don't lie to your kids, but use their preferred pronouns. The preferred pronouns of the parents actually.
Josh Appel: Exactly. I don't think people really believe, oh, you're lying to your kids. I think they believe I want my kids to be sophisticated. And like, you know what? Actually don't actually believe in such trivial nonsense.
Rafael Mangual: Well, what's going to end up happening is your kid's going to be the class jerk and no one is going to like them. .
Josh Appel: They're going to be more traumatized. They're going to be the kid who doesn't have any fun, has no friends. I hate to be hard. I think that's the reality. You're going to be this kid who's like, well actually rainbow are certain light patterns. No, it's a rainbow. And you should love it. And it's enjoyable to see these great works of art and nature and beauty. And that's a good thing. And especially when you're a kid, that's when you appreciate those things most when you're unencumbered by the trials
Daniel Di Martino: I've never met anybody traumatized by having believed in Santa or…
Rafael Mangual: Whatever. I have met people who were raised to not believe in Santa as kids and told me, I feel like I missed out.
Josh Appel: What you're going to say. The tooth fairy doesn't exist?
Rafael Mangual: Of course. But again, it's like the whole point is it's a magical game of pretend that it's a metaphor. It's fun. It primes them for the ability to understand the power of faith in something, which I think is actually beautiful.
Josh Appel: Yeah. I mean speaking, I hate to bring up C.S. Lewis. I feel like in the podcast, the Jew, bring up C.S. Lewis is great. Every podcast. All of his themes are basically about recapturing the child within us. And he, in the introduction to Narnia, he says, this is to my goddaughter, her name's Lucy Barfield, the daughter of his friend Owen Barfield. And he says, I wrote this when you were young. Now you're much older, but hopefully one day you'll be old enough to read fairytales once again. And the themes of all of his works are that as children, we're very idealistic and we have this wonder and this beauty that we could really tap into. And as adults, we become very cynical and we become very hardened. And adulthood should be about rediscovering the child, not as an escape, not as like, I want to escape the world, go to be this Disney adult. Again, DINK no kid type, but as a way of recapturing what is great about life, escaping cynicism.
Rafael Mangual: Well, I think that's what having kids does to you, right? I mean, it's like as you grow up and you become an adult and you navigate life, you have to narrow the scope of your vision. You have to focus on things. You have to make choices. I mean, the world is full of infinite choices. If we just contemplated every single choice, we would just stand still. I have to know where I'm going, which in and of itself reflects an element of faith because there's an element of faith that this is the right way to go and that what I'm pursuing is good for me. But anyway, it takes a great degree of narrowing your vision to be a successful adult. But the beauty of kids, and I think one of the reasons why it's just so wonderful to be around them is that they are looking at the world as this completely open place. Their vision hasn't narrowed yet. So their senses of possibilities are infinite. And there's beauty in that. And so you get to rediscover that as a parent. You get to reconnect with that sort of part of being a child, which it's nice. It gives you hope. It gives you hope. Yeah, which is, and I think it counteracts the kind of cynicism that tends to come with adulthood, which is one of the reasons why I encourage you all to go out there, get married, have kids. It's amazing. The best thing in the world.
Daniel Di Martino: I thought first you were going to say to believe in Santa
Rafael Mangual: That's right. That's right. Hey, maybe you'll get what you want. Alright, well, before we go, I want to know what's on your Christmas list. What are we asking in Santa for?
Daniel Di Martino: Oh, what is on my Christmas list is that I hope Venezuela becomes a free country. Let sorry that I took it really serious, but that's been on my Christmas list since I was conscious.
Rafael Mangual: We just got to get Maduro on one of those boats, man.
Daniel Di Martino: I wrote letters to baby Jesus, baby Jesus, please let Chavez not been President anymore. That was me as a kid again. And now, I mean, we're getting closer. Hopefully with the strikes. They just confiscated, they seized an oil tank for Trump, I’m so happy.
Rafael Mangual: By the way. I saw one, I saw the dumbest takes on that. Someone commented, I forget who it was on X, but they were showing the video of the people propelling down from the helicopters onto the oil tank. They're like, oh, so you can take a boat without blowing it up. Because you want to blow up an oil tanker?
Daniel Di Martino: There's different things here. The oil tank is very slow, not like the drug boats, its huge.
Rafael Mangual: But you're also not going to spill tons of oil into the ocean.
Josh Appel: What about environmentalism?
Daniel Di Martino: We can sell the oil. We can keep the oil. What are we going to do with the drugs? We're going to snort the cocaine. What do they expect? Maybe those people, maybe Hunter Biden or if somebody else was in the White House, maybe the trader would…
Rafael Mangual: Those fish are having a party though, let me tell you exactly.
Daniel Di Martino: But anyway, I'm very happy about them. Seizing the oil tanker. Hopefully sees many more of them, and I hope they do more so that Venezuela can once again be a free country. So that's on my Christmas list.
Rafael Mangual: All right. What are we asking for Hanukkah?
Josh Appel: Spend more time with my family.
Rafael Mangual: You guys are going to make me feel bad.
Josh Appel: Listen, I would love to get some stuff and maybe save up for some nice things for myself.
Daniel Di Martino: What do you want to buy? You want to buy something?.
Josh Appel: I'd love to buy a watch right now. A new watch. Nice watch. Maybe save up for that. Get some sleep. That would be nice enough.
Rafael Mangual: That's right. You're a new parent.
Daniel Di Martino: How old's your baby?
Josh Appel: She is about two and a half months now.
Rafael Mangual: I didn't know you had a girl. Team Girl Dad.
Josh Appel: I’m such a girl dad.
Rafael Mangual: It's the best.
Josh Appel: Everyone said you're having a girl. You're a girl dad. I only grew up with sisters. Both my sisters, my two older sisters had boys. I have the girl. It's classic cycle.
Rafael Mangual: Nice, nice. I had my son first, but I got a girl too.
Josh Appel: But we should do some watch recommendations on this podcast, I think.
Daniel Di Martino: He would be the guy. He's the guy.
Rafael Mangual: No, John. John Ketcham’s watch collection is really top notch, Yeah, he's got taste.
Josh Appel: I got him a Christmas gift related to that a little bit.
Josh Appel: So maybe he'll bring that on the next podcast. Fantastic. But I want to hear yours?
Rafael Mangual: I mean, I don't know. A new watch would be nice. I'll always take a new watch.
Josh Appel: You're hoping watches this podcast episode.
Rafael Mangual: No, she can't afford any of then watches that I want. Neither can I. Why I don't have them. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I always wanted an aquanaut. It's the base level stainless steel, which is funny. That's the one you'll never get. Yeah. Even though it's the least expensive one. You could have the money walk into Patek Philippe and they just won't sell it to you.
Josh Appel: Oh, it's one of those they rarely make them.
Josh Appel: I going to say there's an article from, there's this guy Elliot Ackerman, and he did How to Be a Gentleman Series for the Free Press, and he did a whole thing how a man should own a watch and how it's not just that…
Rafael Mangual: I haven't read that. I got to read that.
Josh Appel: My point is you're not like a materialist for coveting. You're loving the beautiful things in life. And actually, I think goes back to that wonder, and there's a craftsmanship there, a respect for this beautiful, intricate thing that you're just wearing and you have look down. It's like, oh, that's nice. And I think he's coming to speak to us next week, so you should tell him.
Rafael Mangual: Okay, nice. I will. I will. I'll have to pick a good watch to wear on that day.
All right. Well, unfortunately, that's all the time we had. I want to thank you all for watching another episode of the City Journal Podcast. We also want to wish you a Merry Christmas, a happy Hanukkah, happy holidays, whatever it is that you celebrate, we hope that you bring in the New Year in the company of good friends and family, and we will see you again soon.
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