why did you write this article
boring:) just kidding. i love greek mythology i obsess over it
awesome blog, do you have twitter or facebook? i will bookmark this page thanks.
rachat de credit www.rachatdecredit.net
Allow me to give you an insider's version of our current predicament. We have had a corrupt, primarily "socialist" government since about 1981. The primary purveyor of political corruption has been the core of what masquerades as "Europe", and the tool has been "socialism" in a bizarre European version of Cloward-Piven, with post-Cold War leftover hang-ups.
The rise of our external debt since 1981 has had a strong correlation whith such "socialism" and corruption. We have been bribed into purchasing Siemens hardware and HDW submarines. We have been coerced into laws that have encouraged the purchase of every German and French trinket imaginable. In a messy fiscal situation, it clearly takes two to tango, and we are no exception. If you were to kindly focus on so called "European" politics you might have discovered all these details, including the orgy of money transfers to the Spannish Olympic Games mafia for the 2004 Games. Greeks are not innocent in all this, but it is a small band of Europe-worshipping cronies controlling our local media. Yes, we do have a real estate bubble, and a consumer products bubble, but our uniquness is our small size and hence our vulnerability to "systemic risc".
Your assessments of our modern origins in the 18th and 19th century aren't far off. The modern Greek state started as a protectorate of the Great Powers in some SE version of the Great Game, to eliminate the moral justification of the then Russian Empire to head south (I plagiarized this from a Henry Kissinger book).
Now on our ethnic roots mumbo jumbo: Our language is pretty much the same as that of the Myceneans of about 3,500 years ago. If DNA is important, the National Geographic haplogroup project reveals a concentration of "Greek" DNA groups which are unique to this area. We clearly have admixtures as may be expected, and, to my surprise, I am ...Phoenician (just like ...Thomas Jefferson). In our recent history we have made a stand against Turks, not far fro Thermopylae, a coincidence related to our mountainous terrain, and as an obscure Roman outpost, called Byzantium, we have had to deal with axis-of-evil types ranging from Persians and Huns down to Arabs and Turks, oh for about 2,000-2,500 years. It has been ...tiring.
Our ability to pay or restrucure our debt is neither unique, nor is the methodology any different from the GM or Penn Central restructuring, with the minor exceptions that "Europe" is not (thank God) a Federal Government and the European Banking system is probably more of a mess than the pre Glass-Steagall US banking system.
We are in for a nasty dive, but this is not, I believe, the subject of your note.
Apologies for a lengthy comment
It's not the myth of the historical Greece that keeps Europe in Greece, it's the myth of the ahistorical Europe (the EU) that keeps them there.
While it is undeniable that modern Greece has major problems - the premise that Guy Sorman puts forth in this article is incorrect, absurd and insulting to those that are versed in the historical facts he presents. Greece has been such a major factor in what Europe has become that space precludes outlining it all here but here are a few key points:
- Ancient Greek learning was incorporated into the over 1000 years of Byzantium which was the medieval empire of the Greeks that spanned from 324 AD to 1453 AD. Without the existence of this superpower of the middle ages modern Europe would simply not exist as we know it. Byzantium was the bastion of power and culture that protected Europe from being overrun by the Islamic invasions starting in the 600's.
- Greeks organized their liberation via a society formed to end Turkish rule through a long and painful war that saw significant help from Philhellenes in Europe. Those who helped can not take credit for having "created" the modern Greek state.
- If Greece had not defeated Mussolini in his 1940 invasion of Greece and bogged down the following Nazi invasion with fierce resistance the outcome of WWII most likely would have been a German victory.
These are a few facts to rebut the nonsense in this article. Yes Greece must get it's house in order but Europe does in fact owe Greece a tremendous amount of goodwill given all that this small country has contributed to the world from Ancient Greek times to the vast heritage of Byzantium and the sacrifices of Modern Greece.
you're downright insulting. have you ever realized that tyranny which is what the greek state suffered from for hundreds of years has taught the greek populace to "wait for the bailout". ...I guess not.
I find it difficult to accept the basic premise that Europeans confer any special benefits on Greece due to its past. Byron, Shelly et als may have roamed the ancient ruins, Pausanias in hand, but hard nosed German bankers could care less thousands year old Greek contributions to Western culture.
The issue is simply this - Greeks have been living on credit for far too long - those who loaned them the money to do this went into the arrangement with open eyes. The idea that lenders or those to whom they lend, are entitled to some sort of special protection or dispensation at taxpayer expense is a concept that only dates back to 2008 or so. If Greece can't afford to pay then so be it, but continually loaning money is insanity - it just puts off the inevitable. As in any other crisis what should come out of it should be new rules putting countries on a shorter leash. Hopefully, other countries like the United States government is looking at Greece and learning something - but I doubt it.
A very thought provoking article. I like the idea Guy Sorman stirs up. In many respects it makes sense.
"Please note, too, that Greece has used its substantial political influence in the U.S. (the Greek lobby fueled by ethnicity) to deny Turkey its arguable rights in Cyprus. This, despite the Greeks having the Turks to thank for setting in motion the events, Gen. Davos' ultimatum [in 1974, not 1973], that brought down the junta. "
Since we're on the subject of mythology, both the "special role" Turkey played wrt to the Greek junta and the "arguable rights" of Turkey in Cyprus (what exactly? the ongoing illegal occupation of the northern part?) are myths propagated by Turkey and its supporters. Wrt to the article, the supposed philhellenism that blinds the West to Greek realities is and has always been non-existent as far as governments (you know the important people up there and not the few actually philhellenic volunteers etc) go. France and Germany are looking out for themselves first and foremost today. As for the "Hellenistic tradition" that one was kept alive by Byzantine copyists who happened to live in the same area and speak the same language. Adding inflammatory, half-baked comments to what is already untrue (the supposed philhellenism that can't allow the West to abandon Greece) makes a pretty awful article.
I normally pay attention to what Mr Sorman writes,but I'll give him a mulligan on this one.It's nice to know that my mother's ancestry is a figment of Lord Byron's imagination.I suppose that the Byzantines were also a myth.
Washington Insider,if the Greek Lobby was so powerful,why are the Turks still occupying northern Cyprus?-Joseph McNelis,M.D.
Please note, too, that Greece has used its substantial political influence in the U.S. (the Greek lobby fueled by ethnicity) to deny Turkey its arguable rights in Cyprus. This, despite the Greeks having the Turks to thank for setting in motion the events, Gen. Davos' ultimatum [in 1974, not 1973], that brought down the junta.
Thank goodness, Guy was paying attention in his history or political science classes or doing the research afterwards. I'd heard of each of the incidents but hadn't yet summed them into a reasonable description of the state of Greece. My earliest memories of Greece were only of the classical era. Some 3,00 or 2,500 years went by while I slept. Happily Guy stayed awake.
Well, you learn something every day
reading City Journal online.
Never qualified for EU from the beginning.
Why can't Wall Street just discount the
coming default as myth.