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Judith Miller
Rauf on the Ropes « Back to Story

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Richard Griesenbeck September 28, 2010 at 7:12 PM
Rauf seems to have said much that I can agree with, but in the present brouhaha over the mosque/center, heated up by the election season,no sensible compromise solution looks to be in sight. Good that no funds are in hand to start actual work, so that a year or two can allow tempers to cool and rational discourse to resume.
Mashan, like most, if not all xtians, prejudicely and antisemitically believes that the NT replaces the Tanach ("OT") as laid out by the Catholic Church when their own messiah taught that this was not true: A: Matt.5.17-20: Torah remains until heaven and earth disapear and not until any "new covenant" claimed by xtians. Their messiah taught to obey every word of the rabbis (who taught the Oral Law) Matt.23.1-3. (All Orthodox Jews are Pharisees.) Their messiah taught that many will claim to follow him but he doesn't know any of them "who work without Torah" (Matt.7.21-23, emph. v.23 anomos in Greek which according to Liddell and Scott's exhaustive Greek Lexicon means "with the Mosaic Law." (a true meaning xtians always leave out of their lexicons.) And clearly Judaism was taught by James and the messiah-sect in the book of Acts by the Early Church when James confronts Paul who was accused of teaching "nullification of the Law" in Acts 21. James claims here that Jews who believe (in the messiah) are zealots for all the commandments while gentiles are only obigated to the seven commandments (of which 4 are listed here but the other 3 are listed elsewhere in the NT). Paul denies here that he is teaching "nullifcation of the Law" by doing what James asks of him and defends himself of the accusation throughout the end of the book of Acts. He even at one point claims, "Nor can they prove to you the charges of which they now accuse me. But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the G-d of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and the Prophets." Obviously his teachings were misunderstood by those in his day and by the xtian today. For here he admits that he does according to all the Law ACCORDING TO THE WAY SECT, ie. the J-man's sect.
I persoally do not believe that Islam is peaceful. When we are living in an age when increasing numbers of muslims are being radicalisedit really doesn't make any sense. You look at other countries where is islam and sharia rule, and the people live in very severe cultures where the women are in fear of their lives. The girls are not allowed to go to school. Christian churches are outlawed such as in Saudi Arabia, and christians who live in those countries are often attacked and at times murdered. The last i saw the radical muslim numbers were appraoching near 25%. When your talking 1.3 billion members of islam and 25% are radicalized and support terrorist acts or at least refuse to come out against them it shows that there may be as many as 300 million who would or do support the war against the west and Israel
The Imam has never seemed sincere. His past is a checkered one, making a researcher think that he was probably a double agent, a spy playing both sides for his own benefit. If he is as intelligent as he would like us to believe, he never would have come up with this offensive scheme. I am not a Republican. I am not a bigot. I am loyal to my fellow Americans, especially those who have sacrificed for our country, willingly or unwillingly. It is just a matter of fact that Muslims will have to make efforts to show the rest of us that they are loyal to us, not the Arab nations to the east, and not to the Extremists from they land of origin. I have seen no signs of a desire to be of us and among us in peace and for the benefit of all.
Mr. Rauf is not permitted to exercise logic-reason nor cause and effect it is considered blasphemous in Islam, only first casuality is permitted, this is why you can not talk nor deal with these Islamic people.
Raul is a smooth talker attempting to please both sides. Let him moves his "Cultural Center" up town away from the WTCenter region.
I recommend readers acquainting themselves with the word Taqiyya in the Quran which according to bloggersbase.com allows Muslims to lie in order to promote the spread of Islam.
If this is true and I intend to read the Quran to see for myself then we cannot believe anything a Muslim says because unlike the Bible where Jesus'teaching of love,honesty replaces the harsher Old Testament. The later writings of Mohammad are more militant and supercede the earlier writings which do not promote militancy.We needto get our heads out of the sand and educate ourselves so we can make our own decisions and not be led by either side.
I think Kyle Simonson should find religion. Has not the secular world also killed in their name? Marxism, communism? And was it not the secular scientist that created the nuclear bomb to kill thousands maybe millions? The secular seem to forget that you too are guilty of manslaughter in your name, killing millions of babies a year through abortion. You kill today in the name of "justice" too (ie., capital punishment…something that Judaism, a religion, is against. And you accuse Israel of breaking promises made to the world and "Palestine." Israel IS Palestine. The Jews were the original "Palestinians," a name given to the area of Israel by and after the Romans warred after them. It is you who should check you history and facts. There NEVER has there been a "Palestinian" state or a "Palestinian" people. This is the lie presented by the Arab peoples who squatted the land after Islam and xtianity invaded the area. You can't rewrite history, Kyle. You ask us to check the Oslo Accords "for one of the most egregious examples of Israel's violations" when you know that is not possible to the average man. It is easy to makeup such lies just like muslims lie about using their blood for matzahs. Why don’t YOU give us JUST ONE example of an Olso violation? Are you afraid that if you do, you will be proven a fool? In truth there are many violations of the Olso agreement my muslims, not Israel. Radical far right Islamists call for the extinction of the western world, this is true but NOT in the name of religion (a statement of "rascism" against religion) but rather in the name of Islam. So YOU remember the history of NOW, and YOU get educated because Islam is the ONLY religion NOW killing in the name of A religion. And I don't see any muslims trying to rid the strip clubs here as offensive because of what they supposedly promote. They too are silent. Just checking YOU Kyle. Yeah, I think not. Nice consistency you have there too.
Since Muslims can lie to "infidels", he can put up the white flag to get political time while still building the mosque. The people should monitor the activity on the site to insure there is no mosque/center being built "undercover."
Please, this evil little lying imam is no different from all the muslim terrorists in the world!! He is just biding his time like all the rest of them as he slithers up real close to the weak minded idiot liberals! With his money and his promises that are nothing but candy coated lies! The (sic) muslims want to take over the world and its so freaking obvious!!! And they are very patient and will wait while we lay the red carpet out for them to do it!!!
I think most of us know this can't happen. The only thing to stop the mosque is to kill a few pigs on the land. and Islam won't touch it. I can remember Israel thinking of hanging some type of pig stuff in their buses to keep out terrorist.
I think most of us know this can't happen. The only thing to stop the mosque is to kill a few pigs on the land. and Islam won't touch it. I can remember Israel thinking of hanging some type of pig stuff in their buses to keep out terrorist.
Good Night and Happy New Year.
Rauf on the Ropes. According to Shariah Law that is hanging. (:-) LOL
Kyle Simonsonn writes the following:
Read a little history. Israel to this day continues to break promises made to the world and Palestine(check the Oslo Accords for one of the most egregious examples). Radical far right Islamists call for the extinction of the western world. All of this in the name of religion. So remember history, if you don't know it, get educated from a variety of sources on it.

I say that Kyle should read history. He obviously has not. Palestine=name made up by the British after partition in 1917 following The British Mandate by The League of nations. You are very confused Mr. Simonsonn.
As far as the Oslo accords and other peace talks, Israel has always accepted them while the PLO, PLA, Hammas and every terrorist organization has not. In fact, till this day they all call for the destruction of Israel. So, if you will read history you will find that The Israelis always react in self defense. Self defense is their right. You know - 8000 missiles fired into Israel and no response from Israel- I wonder how long The Israelis will tolerate this. Read the modern history instead of giving mis-information.
As for the Mosque being built-it will be looked upon by Muslims as a victory over the West. Also, no one will be allowed to enter to pray except Muslims.
Just read comments by an apologist for Rauf and for Islam in general. I dont know what religion Kyle Simonson embraces, but if he/she is the historian he/she would like to have us believe, then he needs to look in a mirror to see his true self. Apologizing for islam ignores that this is one religion/culture that has not modernized in its 1500 year history. what you see today is basically what the world saw during the reign of mohammad, one of the most brutal warriors in history. Neither Christianity nor Judaism have as part of their religious concepts, the kind of barbarism we see in islam. Nor did we see a vast majority of Christians or Jews advocate world domination and demonizing those not of the same faith. Nor did we nor do we see in other religions, the barbaric rules of Sharia that includes the disgusting way islam treats women and infidels, defined as ANY non-muslim. For this person to equate the isolated instances of violent activities among other religions with violence by a large majority of muslims is disengenous. Attacking Judy Miller, the messenter telling the truth is a typical muslim ploy to try to silence those who would speak out.
The Islamic tradition is to destroy the edifices of other religions and build Mosques and Islamic edifices larger and of greater grandeur to demonstrate their superiority, victory and rule of the others, their land and their governance. They did this in India destroying the majority of Hindu Temples in northern India, they destroyed the large Buddhas in Afghanistan, they destroyed 52 Synagogues in east Jerusalem and then claimed it was traditionally Muslim, they built their Mosque over the Jewish Temple Mount and now claim it is an Islamic holy site. They would be building the Mosque over ground if they felt they were able and will if they get the power but for now will settle for as near to ground zero as they are able to celebrate the destruction of the Twin Towers and terrorism itself. The Cordoba Mosques construction should be moved to Somalia or Yemen.
It must be said to remind Americans and the rest of the world that if a non Muslim is caught at the Temple Mount Mosque praying as a Christian or a Jew, Muslim Shariah law is used to stone the person to death. The same for praying in Saudi Arabia and Iran. So much for interfaith dialogue.
The Muslims Clerics in Israel do not want to follow the Laws of Israel.
One must always remember that a Muslim is allowed to lie to an infidel.
The Free World needs to understand the meaning of Taquiaa, the muslim art of deception when it is for the sake of Allah. This Rauf is one heck of a good Taquiaaist.
Islam Charity duty is to REBUILD FLOOD victims lives in P. WHY MY TAXES GO FOR THAT! MUSLIM NATIONS HAVE NATURAL RESORSESS BUT THEY ALWAS BEG+BEG, WHOM? THE INFIDELS THEY WANT TO KILL or PUT IN CHAINS. I AM SICK< SICK but WAKE! WHY MOSQUES ON EWERE CORNER IN THE WEST, WHY NOT CLEAN WATTER< HOUSING, SHOOLS FOR ALL, CURRICULUM ON PEACE INSTEAD HOW TO JIHADs DUTY TO KILL JEWS + CHRISTIANS + OTHER FAIHTS.IN THEIR OWN LANDS. IT THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN THEIR CHANGE"WITH IN", I DON'T SE END OF PROBLEM> ? MOST REPORTERS ARE IN FEEEER of O. admin +"Peaceful Muslims" We are already on knees facing M
@ A Disgusted Modern Woman

Well said. My thoughts exactly. Islam needs to be seen for what it truly is: the world's most successful old-boy's club, one which truly knows how to keep women in their place.
A Disgusted Modern Woman September 17, 2010 at 10:12 PM
So Rauf claims (utterly disingenuously) that Sharia's differences with America’s secular laws “small and minor” because the intent of Sharia law is to “uphold” life and the family. So where in state or federal code do we find the following approved of in U.S. law: polygamy? legal wife-beating? stoning rape victims to death for having had sex outside marriage? forced marriages? refusal to permit women to leave their homes/hold a job/get an education/choose their friends and spouses/travel/etc. without permission from their father or husband? harsh penalties for women who do NOT obliterate their face and bodies behind dehumanizing garments? legal female genital mutilation?.... This list could go on for quite a while. I invite others to add to it. The audacious dishonesty and intellectual deception of Rauf on a fact-based, easily verifiable issue such as the unbreachable chasm between US legal treatment of women versus the gender-apartheid, dehumanization and cruelty of Sharia law towards women tells us all we need to know about this man's integrity. It matters not whether this man is a "moderate" Muslim nor a terrorist. Gender apartheid and vicious denial of basic civil and human rights to women within the Muslim Sharia law he explicitly supports is more than reason enough not to support him or any project of his.
Islamist, meet MS-13 member.

Embrace each others "diversity" and "multi-culturalism."

Matter meet anti-matter."

Maybe the barbaric invaders from the south and the barbaric horde from the mideast will naturally annihilate each other.
My personal impression after very carefully following what is written above is, Muslims most of them are not flexible, refuse to identify with the surroundings mix seamlessly,live like others.
It is very clearly evident in his several statements made earlier. I do not think he is trying to appeal to all his fellow followers.
SR
USA
Ken Frank: Jews were not killed in the name of Christianity. Your analogy is faulty.

Kyle Simonson: Stripteasers did not kill antone on 9/11. Your moral equivalence - strip-teasing is somehow as sinful as mass murder - is also a faulty analogy.
Most "moderate Muslims" fail this test : is Islam in need of some fundamental reform ? No, says imam Rauf, there is nothing wrong with Islam.

Similarly, French "moderate" imam Chalghoumi, who is protected by French police against Islamists who physically threaten him in his own mosque near Paris, because, they say, he is "a Jewish imam", has just given an interview about his new book arguing for "a French Islam".

-- What would a French Islam be ? asked the journalist.

-- Certainly not an Islam where adjustments would be made to the Koran, he replied immediately.

And he gave a smile after that.

So here you are. Islam is good, no need to change anything to it ; don't even dream of a modernised Koran with the supremacist bits taken out.

And that's the moderates speaking. Never mind the extremists...
"Rauf said that he wanted to find a “solution” to the furious imbroglio over the planned center"
"imbroglio"
This writer is either overeducated or just has a Thesaraus to impress people.
Who uses language like this?
The Sep 11 attacks were part of the Islamic jihad to conquer the world for Allah, the violent or hard jihad. Imam Rauf's attempt to plant a mosque on the dust of the victims on the Ground Zero killing field is an expression of the soft jihad to the same purpose.
I believe it was M.Zuhdi Jasser who also stated Rauf always wants to be .."the center
of attention.."and .."loves the limelight.."
Something a project like the Cordova House
project gives him.
Islam, Christianity, Judaism, take your pick. Countless souls have been murdered in the name of each of them. It's really neither here nor there when it happened. The fact of the matter is that it has happened in each "religion". It's important to remember that "religion" is a creation of man, not of God, therefore subject to man's foibles. Fifty years ago in this country blacks were being treated like third class citizens, being killed, having their churchs bombed by "good christian men". These "men" used religion as part of their racism. Read a little history. Israel to this day continues to break promises made to the world and Palestine(check the Oslo Accords for one of the most egregious examples). Radical far right Islamists call for the extinction of the western world. All of this in the name of religion. So remember history, if you don't know it, get educated from a variety of sources on it. Insane behavior tends to repeat itself, and if you look at today, insanity continues. On both sides of the community center issue. Christians, if you are so against the Islam presence, shouldn't the strip clubs be equally offensive because of what they supposedly promote? Just checking. Yeah, I thought not. Nice consistency there.
I don't think I've read a more thinly veiled article of bias and intolerance in quite some time. Ms. Miller, you are hack and a pawn of Mr. Murdoch and the right wing screamers. The idea that you could call yourself a journalist and write such a clearly biased article is incomprehensible. Do you have any pride at all in what flows from your pen? Do you wish to sully the institutions of education that purport to have taught you journalism? Have you no shame? You, Ms. Miller, will have to explain yourself someday to your children as to why you write so poorly. Unless of course the ignorance gene is passed on.
I don't understand this term "anti-Islamic." I mean, of course, as an American citizen, you have the right to be against any religion you so choose. How can choosing to be against a particular religion be "wrong." We supposedly are allowed to think and believe as we wish. Why are people running from the phrase "anti-Islamic". I am against returning to the stone age, also.
Rauf is a slumlord and his partner, Sharif El-Gamal, a con man. In that sense they are very much American types; and Americans know they cannot be trusted and make very poor neighbors.

The Left supports them because they support anything that diminishes or denies 9/11. Sept. 11 saw absolute evil in the form of non-Western, non-Judeo-Christians strike an innocent America and sacrifice and heroism in response. Things like duty, faith and patriotism made sense. This obliterated Liberal idealogy. So, 9/11 has to go. This mosque is just another effort at that. Along with say, closing Guantanamo Bay, denying terrorism and the coup de ville; the "National September 11 Memorial at the WTC" which will remake Ground Zero so that id does not acknowledge the attacks.

9/11 changed everything; they want to change it back.
Media event over.
Return to your brotherly loving ways.
Kirk out.
I think you are too optomistic - they have always said all options are on the table yet refuse to meet with anyone who offers a different property for their venture. After saying all options are on the table and they're meeting with the stakeholders they consistently state that they are not moving.

They will not willingly give up the Burlington Bldg because it has the landing gear from one of the planes flown into the twin towers on 9/11 in it. That makes it the most perfect victory marker they could possibly have.
The sub-headline is right on the money. "An Islamic community center at Ground Zero seems increasingly unlikely." Of course not. The center is located blocks away, oh but it's okay to build strip joint right next door.
Reparations for kidnapped future Janissaries, forcibly taken and brainwashed and used as shock troops by the Ottoman invaders of Christian lands in Europe.
I am American and lived in the United Kingdom for 30 years,from the mid-70s until 2006. I saw what happened in that country and do not want it to happen here. I've been on the receiving end of these people more than once. I don't want to find myself on the receiving end in my own country. I am bored now of being called a bigot and a racist,simply because I know--from long personal experience--what I am talking about. Thank God Almighty, Rauf is on the ropes.
To Ken Frank: The Carmelite nuns who wished to open a house of prayer at Auschwitz to mourn not only their Jewish brethren but also priests and religious especially one of their own, Sister Teresa Benedicta of the Cross, the former Edith Stein, a Jewish professor and philosopher from Germany who was gassed at Auschwitz. Pope John Paul II asked them to refrain from completing it and they complied with the Holy Father's request.
As if the 9-11 attacks were not enough, Islam is wanting to rub our noses in their victory over the Great Satan, America.As if President Obama hadn't already established his preference and affection for Islam, he has to underscore it with defending Muslims' right to build the insultingly-named Cordoba Mosque within sight of the former Twin Towers. Instead of a Crescent and Star, it should be surmounted with a fist with the middle finger extended upward. Built or not, it has become an iconic symbol of Freedom of Religion gone wrong. Evidently even well-educated Muslims can think Americans are pushovers. They must think they got away with 9-11, that our memories have gone into a coma.
I guess hasn't heard that Democrats also oppose the Mosque -- like Howard Dean and Harry Reid. You can't find many more liberal than those guys. I am disappointed that Rauf is still considered a legitimate spokesman. Personally I would like to see him fired from his job as State Department representative.
The bottom line of all this is that the topic of Religious Freedom is being abused, and used if you prefer as a weapon against the United States Of America by the Imam as well as our very own President and others.

The Muslims are welcome to worship as they please as well as build Mosque, Centers, etc.
They are being asked not to build that close to Ground Zero.
Feisal Abdul Rauf is a deep cover Isalmist. He was the son of Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood Imam and Sunni scholar Muhammad Abdul Rauf (1917–2004) who was related to Muslim Brotherhood jihadi Abdul Munim Abdul Rauf who attempted to assassinate Egyptian strong man Gamal Abdul Nasser in 1954. As a result the Muslim Brotherhood was made illegal in Egypt. Following this Munim Rauf and five other attempted assassins were executed, and four thousand Muslim Brotherhood members were rounded up and arrested then sent to the Citadel Prison. Muhammad Abdul Rauf had to flee Egypt or he would have been in for a big shock. Gamal Nasser would be exposed to three more assassination attempts before he died of a heart attack on September 28, 1970. Feisal realized that he could never penetrate American society if he took the line that America, the Great Satan, must be destroyed so he received permission from a radical Imam to become a peace-loving Sufi. He has a hidden agenda to destroy America and he must be stopped. There is no such thing as ISLAMOPHOBIA. A phobia is an irrational fear. Islam is a real threat.
When I heard Mike the mayor say that the project was a done deal because it wasapproved by the local community board, & that those oppoing it are 'un-american' & 'bigots' I wondered whether his ego, money & possessions dulled his mind & inhibited clear thinking. The 'community' in this matter is not the local board, it is the City, indeed, the entire country, which has an intense interest in whether & where this symbol of Islamic conquest should be located.
Let's consider the desire by some Christians to construct a Christian chapel or memorial next to the Auschwitz site. How insensitive is this wish to Jews?
Blaa, blaaa, blaaa.... tired of veiled apologetics for what is a simple problem: Islam includes single minded (war-like) strategies for taking over the world by any means ... the least of these is violence (although it is dramatic).

When we view Islam in reified simple terms,as a war on Christianity and Western civilization.

The imam Rauf is working to place a powerful symbol of "winning" a major battle against the West and Christianity. Stand back and think of the proposed mosque as to the "meanings" it contains. We can't let Islam win this obvious battle.... Why can't we admit that Islam is at war with America?

C'mon Judith. Trying so hard to be "moderate."
Quoting so many nice sounding statements. You should have done a little more homework:
http://weaselzippers.us/2010/08/20/true-face-of-imam-rauf-to-be-exposed-by-newly-discovered-audio-tapes/
Annette - were you thinking of this sign?

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/photos/martyr.asp
Everytime I read an account including quotes from an Islamic/Muslim spokesman I think immediately of Taqiyya-Kitman. The dripping hypocrisy from out of the mouth of that woman, Daisy Khan...what a name!....would be comic if it weren't so deadly.

I hope that shaman/imam is actually now on the defensive.

But all should remember, this is just the latest nose-under-our-tent tactic of this insidious enemy.
"He said that sharia was intended to “uphold” life, the family, and the practice of religion, and called its differences with America’s secular laws “small and minor.”"

Mr. Rauf's statement shows either great disingenuousness or profound ignorance. Laws help produce societies and the difference between Western societies and those produced by sharia are neither small nor minor. Doubletalk - this man has nothing but doubletalk.
I remember the picture I saw of a hand-made sign on a N.Y. store window. "Closed in memory of (the names of the pilots who crashed their planes into the World Trade Center)." Sorry, I don't remember the names, but I certainly was angry at the sign. The people were selling goods to Americans and making a living here. Their place should be boycotted by anyone in the area. They were ejoying all the pleasures of living in this land and hated the place. They want to make a Muslim land of this country, and I truly believe that Obama wants it too. I believe that is why he said that this is not a a Christian nation, but a Muslim nation. It is apparent to me that he is working toward that end as fast as he can, and he is is trashing America and our Israeli friends so he can live his dream of being "King" and ultimate ruler of this Muslim nation. Vote the traitors out, and ride them out on a rail! WE WANT NO MUSLIM BUILDING ANYWHERE NEAR GROUND ZERO. If I had my way, we would round all of the trators up, and ship all of them back where they came from. No, I'm not a racist, I'm a realist. They live by the Quaran and that is their blueprint to terror.

The book of Revelations says that the souls under the Altar of heaven cry out for revenge of those who killed them. Also, the souls who are beheaded for Christ are there. Strange isn't it that the Bible speaks of beheadings as though that is their favorite means of killing those who fail to live their "religion". It is a false religion, and should never be given the stature it has been given in this country. The end is written, and it is not pretty. God's wrath will be employed upon the wicked. You better believe it.
I remember the picture I saw of a hand-made sign on a N.Y. store window. "Closed in memory of (the names of the pilots who crashed their planes into the World Trade Center)." Sorry, I don't remember the names, but I certainly was angry at the sign. The people were selling goods to Americans and making a living here. Their place should be boycotted by anyone in the area. They were ejoying all the pleasures of living in this land and hated the place. They want to make a Muslim land of this country, and I truly believe that Obama wants it too. I believe that is why he said that this is not a a Christian nation, but a Muslim nation. It is apparent to me that he is working toward that end as fast as he can, and he is is trashing America and our Israeli friends so he can live his dream of being "King" and ultimate ruler of this Muslim nation. Vote the traitors out, and ride them out on a rail! WE WANT NO MUSLIM BUILDING ANYWHERE NEAR GROUND ZERO. If I had my way, we would round all of the trators up, and ship all of them back where they came from. No, I'm not a racist, I'm a realist. They live by the Quaran and that is their blueprint to terror.

The book of Revelations says that the souls under the Altar of heaven cry out for revenge of those who killed them. Also, the souls who are beheaded for Christ are there. Strange isn't it that the Bible speaks of beheadings as though that is their favorite means of killing those who fail to live their "religion". It is a false religion, and should never be given the stature it has been given in this country. The end is written, and it is not pretty. God's wrath will be employed upon the wicked. You better believe it.